| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| benjisonfire |
Posted - 19/06/2012 : 18:48:18
IMO they record better. and for live sound too they can be less of a headache... so for my recording kick im thinking I may get a single headed drum.
this begs the question, other than isolating the mic a bit, will the depth of the drum shell have any effect on the sound? |
| 18 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| lee haydn |
Posted - 26/06/2012 : 01:25:56
Everyone should have the pleasure of owning one Tim, maybe a bit dog eared on the wrap nowadays but re-wrapped they still look the dogs twitcher and sound great too,,  |
| TimSharp |
Posted - 26/06/2012 : 00:56:07
guess we are talking about haymans now then |
| dogface |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 13:51:51
quote:
Originally posted by RickB
IMO a single headed drum is all about the attack, and therefore the head is the biggest single factor in sound. The shell, therefore has a very minor part to play. More important would be the number of lugs holding, and tensioning the head, and whether the head was allowed to freely resonate, with no damping, or whether it was damped.
When you stick a front head on, and start with a big hole, going down to a small hole, you get more resonance from the drum, in the sound. What you actually hear is the shell (and the head)damping the sound waves, and adding a longer decay to each strike.
To bring it all together there are a number of variables in a bassdrum sound and I think, in order of importance to each type (most important to least) they are:
No front head: Skin Type, damping, BD diameter, no of lugs, shell depth
With front Head: Skin type, damping, shell depth, BD diameter, no of lugs
Let the discussion begin!!
Damping reduces sustain and does not create a longer decay, it shortens any vibration. Putting the front head on encloses the space so the air inside acts like a spring and creates resonance.
The physics of the vibrations of open-ended and closed pipes is well known, though drums are more complex due the vast amount of overtones that a drum skin produces. The depth of the shell will have an effect whether there's a front head on it or not. |
| benjisonfire |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 10:27:44
yeah, the heavy weight thing is something I keep seeing in a number of studios....
as I said, this is purely for recording use. |
| Tex |
Posted - 21/06/2012 : 04:00:48
As said. Keep a minimal front head on. Supposed to keep the drum in round. I'm not so sure on a well built drum. I always found a heavy firebrick or stage weight (in a smallish blanket) seemed to add more body probably by exerting force and stiffening the shell and also helped reduce the damping(?). I had road crew then but could be a pain at small gigs weightwise.
I also found that it seemed to depend on the wood what sound you got. Premiers were like a banging door. Luddys sound like dead Luddys. On setting up a couple or fairly recent maple kits before the front head was on was not an unpleasant sound. (Premier Artist and Mapex Pro M) |
| lee haydn |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 14:41:48
Yeah, me too mate, Admiral Red, real good nick, the wrap was near perfect, it sounded so good too, but, a clear out was neccessary,, i only sold my first Hayman because the damn stands were stripping, paid 250 quid for it brand new, Hayman showman with 24" bass drum, swapped it for a Slingerland in the same sizes, gold over black glitter, can't remember for the life of me why i got rid of that, i wish i knew how to post photo's,, |
| mully |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 14:26:36
It was a full kit I sold.
Stephen |
| lee haydn |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 13:32:57
You only need the shell Mully, iv'e restored about five Hayman snares either for myself or my mates who heard mine on stage, iv'e usually replaced the hoops, the base ball bat type damper is neither use nor ornament just looks ok being there, hazy 300 on the reso and a reverse center dot on batter with true tone wires, spot on, i nearly got some stagg lug inserts for my last one so i could put some square tension rods on but didn't bother, finding a slotted key nowadays is hard and those on ebay are stupid money,, |
| mully |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 12:07:31
Just a few weeks ago I sold a mostly-restored Hayman to Rod Quinn, Van Morrison's percussionist. Lovely bloke, he was happy to sit and chat for a couple of hours about all things drummy. I'd like to have kept the Hayman, but bills had to be paid! I'll get another one some time, I'm sure.
Stephen |
| lee haydn |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 11:21:16
Still a great kit Mully, iv'e used a Hayman snare as my main for years now, it's just gone though with the kit, i hope the supraphonic is as good,, |
| mully |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 10:30:53
Funny, the kit I used single-headed BD on was also a Hayman.
Stephen |
| lee haydn |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 09:55:43
Evans introduced "The Retro Screen" to improve the aesthetics of the bass drum, it's like a mossy' net and just lets the air go straight through, i used one of these on my Hayman kit, as Mully says, the single headed bass drum isn't that pretty without the hoops and you can't show off what make it is, with the retro screen you can stick after market logo's to it, they only do the 22" now though,, |
| mully |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 09:22:07
quote:
Originally posted by benjisonfire
quote:
Originally posted by Bonzoghost
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gUUPNRVISE
right back at you? whats your point? I get all that stuff. but the merits of single vs doubleheaded isn't the question, as I said I LIKE the sound of a single headed kick. through a mic.
so shell depth, does it make a difference without the bottom head or would a 22x5 sound the same with one head as a 22X20?
No, they won't sound the same.
I'm speaking from experience here, I played a single-headed BD for years back in the 70's and 80's. Well, I didn't like the look of the BD with no front hoop, so I cut the reso head right back to its rim and put the head rim and hoop back on but the bass drum was to all intents and purposes single-headed. It did give a great punchy sound un-mic'ed. This was before drummers in small bands were allowed mics. 
A mate of mine once cut an old BD in half (no, not across the feckin' diameter of the shell) as an experiment of some sort. There was a big difference in projection between the 14" deep BD on my kit and the six or seven inch deep shell of his cut-in-half BD, and the deeper shell just sounded better. Why? I don't know the science of it, I'm afraid. But to answer your question - based on my own experiences, yes, the depth of the shell DOES make a difference to the sound of a single-headed bass drum.
Stephen |
| RickB |
Posted - 20/06/2012 : 09:04:21
IMO a single headed drum is all about the attack, and therefore the head is the biggest single factor in sound. The shell, therefore has a very minor part to play. More important would be the number of lugs holding, and tensioning the head, and whether the head was allowed to freely resonate, with no damping, or whether it was damped.
When you stick a front head on, and start with a big hole, going down to a small hole, you get more resonance from the drum, in the sound. What you actually hear is the shell (and the head)damping the sound waves, and adding a longer decay to each strike.
To bring it all together there are a number of variables in a bassdrum sound and I think, in order of importance to each type (most important to least) they are:
No front head: Skin Type, damping, BD diameter, no of lugs, shell depth
With front Head: Skin type, damping, shell depth, BD diameter, no of lugs
Let the discussion begin!! |
| benjisonfire |
Posted - 19/06/2012 : 21:51:48
quote:
Originally posted by Bonzoghost
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gUUPNRVISE
right back at you? whats your point? I get all that stuff. but the merits of single vs doubleheaded isn't the question, as I said I LIKE the sound of a single headed kick. through a mic.
so shell depth, does it make a difference without the bottom head or would a 22x5 sound the same with one head as a 22X20? |
| Bonzoghost |
Posted - 19/06/2012 : 19:08:49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gUUPNRVISE
|
| benjisonfire |
Posted - 19/06/2012 : 19:05:45
any idea about the depth thing? will it make a difference?
I played an arbiter kick (22 I think) with a single head and D112. sounded incredible! |
| lee haydn |
Posted - 19/06/2012 : 19:02:04
All through the 70's, 80s' and 90's i only had the one head on my bass drum, first with a 24"x14" shell and through the 80's with a 22"x14" shell, put a Superkick 1 on the batter and Bobs yer Uncle,, |
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single headed kicks...
