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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
 Posted - 20/04/2012 : 21:14:17
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I've been asked to join a new function band. It's a completely new start up and I was initially asked if I had an electronic kit I could gig with (I don't, my e kit is a yamaha dtxplorer) as it would "make it easier for monitoring, playing to a click and controlling drum output volume".
I've told them I've a fusion kit and no concerns over my ability to play at a suitable volume as I've played with acoustic players many many times where keeping a lid on the drum sound is crucial.
The problem is I'm absolutely clueless as to what he means by monitoring and click tracks. I've never used a monitor in my classic rock band nor have I ever played to a click (with the exception that I practise on the e- kit to a metronome and routinely play along to tracks on the e-kit by feeding my ipod into the brain.
I'm not averse in the slightest to investing in IEM (though preferably on a budget as I'm not flush) and no idea whether I will have any problems playing to a click.
So my questions are - how does one practise playing to a click or acquiring the skills needed to do so before the first rehearsal so as not to look like a d!ck and what gear do I need to put together a budget monitoring system?
Cheers |
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Drumheduk
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
292 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2012 : 21:21:35
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They might have meant easier for getting you in their monitors, but to be honest, if you are happy working without a monitor then it should be your decision.
They might want you to have IEM's for the click track but I play live with click and just use headphones, far cheaper.
Practising to a metronome is the same as playing to a click but is best if you headphone it just to get used to the feel.
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Yamaha MCAN,DW Hardware, Sabian, Pro rac
www.deloreanband.co.uk
www.facebook.com/pages/The-Dragsters |
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jg20
New Contributer
United Kingdom
46 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2012 : 21:30:56
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| Hi dibs, I have my own 4 piece function band I use a click throughout as we run tracks - on one wants to pay these days for a 5,6, piece etc. and or brass section - something has to to give to keep the band working and unfortunitaly its players! Its a different expierence and will take a while to become confortable with it (IMO). Its learning not to let the click rule you, you rule it to the point you don't notice its there. I am happy to have a chat through with you to give you an idea of who and what I do with regards to set up etc. |
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paiste
Advanced Contributer
396 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2012 : 22:43:17
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I use click in most of my bands. I had never played with a click before abot 10 years ago. I found it really quite easy, maybe all those years as a kid playing along to Queen and Genesis with my massive 70's Tony Blackburn headphones complete with curly lead and volume controls on each ear!
Anyway With my main band I do all the sequencing. I do it in a quite fundamental way. The sequence is in mono so I have a click track on the left channel and the sequence in my right. I have a little rack to my left on a amp stand that has a minidisc player and a Behringer headphone amp. The left channel that contains the click goes direct out of the player into the headphone amp, whereas the sequence goes out of the player into the mixing desk and back into the right input of my heaphone amp via an Aux send from the main desk. It works really well and is a fairly cheap way of running an IEM system. With my othher bands and the Robbie tribute, We run the sequences off an Ipad. Same principle but I've got a liitle Behringer 6 channel desk instead. Because we have mainly hire in PA it enables me to have a bit more flexibilty as I will have the click in one channel of the desk, the sequenc in another and my vocals and a general mix in another. This enables me to be in complete control of my own monitor mix on the fly, and I just use the headphone output on the desk. As for headphones I used sony in ear buds for years but for the last 5 years or so have been using custom moulded dual driver monitors, expensive but well worth the money. Isolation from them is great so really can save your hearing.
I hope this has helped a bit, and please feel free to contact me if you want any more advice :)
Ps forgot to say, when I do the sequences I have an actal drum track running in my left ear as a click. It's a bit more interesting than a cowbell, whereas the other bands just have the obligatory cowbell. Either will work fine, |
Boots n' Cats n' Boots n' Cats n' Boots n' Cats n' Flats in Dagenham |
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grannydrums
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
557 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 09:42:30
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This band sound to know what they want. Perhaps one of them has played with a drummer using an electric kit before and has specific ideas of how it should be used. Could be that no matter how good you are at playing to a click they want the variety of sounds and effects an electric kit can give. Or it might simply be that they aim to use samples and so need you to play to a click track.
I would not spend any money on monitoring equipment until you know exactly what the form is. Get lots of practice playing to a click (there are brilliant apps on phones) using old fashioned headphones. And the see what the form is at the rehearsal. |
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http://www.lemonrock.com/hustler |
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ian-40
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6211 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 09:55:35
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| whats wrong with gigging a DT explorer ? seriously, they're reliable and solid, with plenty of voices to keep any function band happy. |
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ian-40
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6211 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 09:59:24
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quote:
Originally posted by grannydrums
This band sound to know what they want. Perhaps one of them has played with a drummer using an electric kit before and has specific ideas of how it should be used. Could be that no matter how good you are at playing to a click they want the variety of sounds and effects an electric kit can give. Or it might simply be that they aim to use samples and so need you to play to a click track.
This! |
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Unkle Kev
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1429 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 10:19:46
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Gig the DTXplorer. If you want to beef up the look of your kit, use your bass drum and a trigger.
As for playing with a click, it is easy with a bit of practice. It depends if all the band will hear it, or just you to keep them in line. If the second is the case you MUST lay the law down that they follow you. Otherwise you'll quickly notice that the dominant member of the band (usually the guitarist!) pushes or drags, the rest of the band follow the dominant one, and they all end up playing separately from you. YOU ARE THE BOSS!!! :-) |
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 10:45:16
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Thanks everyone for their replies and advice. I know the band and have been working with them in a new Jethro Tull tribute band, this is an off shoot as there's only one function band locally who are cleaning up all the well paid gigs so there's a gap in the market! I'm certain that if I've been told my acoustic kit is fine that it is. I hate my yamaha e-kit (from the perspective that I get no enjoyment in playing it - it's very much a thing of purpose) and it may shock and horrify to know that I only know how to use the metronome and which buttons control volume. I have never had the remotest interest in figuring out what all the other buttons do and there are only 2 kit sounds that even remotely sound like like drum kits to me. I'm a neanderthal when it comes to electronics. I just have no interest in spending time figuring out how to use a machine to create noises when I've a limited amount of time to spend on actually practising to be a better drummer.
I'm sure the plan is that the "band leader" intends to create backing tracks with the brass parts and other percussion etc and that I will be playing along to those. I'm assuming those same tracks will have a click built into them. |
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AndyC
Advanced Contributer
Spain
337 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 13:20:49
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The monitoring thing is probably to keep on-stage volume down. With an electronic kit they can have the volume on-stage as low as they like, and have it as loud as they like out front.
Re click. It sounds like you have a handle on it already by practicing with a metronome. Also there are loads of places with free downloads of songs either without drums, or without drums and with click. Try here for instance, which has both:- http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/playalongtrack.php Play along with these and just get comfortable with the feel.
Most of my playing was as someone aid earlier, just normal headphones with the click in it, and I heard the rest of the band acoustically bleeding through the headphones. Always worked fine for me, but nowadays, I tend to have a mix in one ear, and click in the other.
Don't let anyone tell you what, "Drummers want," when it comes to click. John Robinson has the click as the loudest thing in his headphones, Simon Phillips has it so low he can only hear it at all if he drifts off. Some like shaker patterns etc, I like just 4 in the bar cowbell, or the Roland, "BEEP boop boop boop," with maybe a hi-hat on the 8th note in between if it gets slower than 90bpm. Then i just pretend it's Louis Conte standing, smiling and playing next to me and we're grooving together. Volume wise, I tend to start with it pretty loud, and as soon as the whole band are locked into the feel, I turn it down to the point where I would only hear it if I drift off, but, that's me. Find what works for you.
Re the DTX. If you don't want to experiment with sounds and finding how to get the best out of it, you won't get the best out of any system. (I could probably have broken that to you a bit more gently :) )
Andy |
"You can practice 12 hours a day and become the fastest drummer in the world, but it's not a race." Kenny Clare |
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 13:52:03
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quote:
Originally posted by AndyC
Re the DTX. If you don't want to experiment with sounds and finding how to get the best out of it, you won't get the best out of any system. (I could probably have broken that to you a bit more gently :) )
Andy
PMSL! Thanks for all the advice and yes, there's no way on this earth I will ever get the best out of the yamaha as I just have no interest whatsoever in electronic anything. It's not a judgement against electronic drums, just that I'm about at the "learning to use my opposable thumbs" stage in the grand scheme of technological advancements. The e-kit is simply a tool to keep my neighbours (and environmental health) off my back as I live in a mid terraced house. The idea of gigging it is horrific, purely from a "how the hell will I be able to take it apart and put it back together" perspective.
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ian-40
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
6211 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 13:56:53
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| Dibs, you dont take it apart. you put it in the back of the car in one piece (like i do with the TD8) |
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 14:06:24
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| Ah! You're assuming I have a sensible drum friendly car! er, No. It's hopeless for getting drums in. |
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AndyC
Advanced Contributer
Spain
337 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 14:29:53
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quote:
Originally posted by dibs
Ah! You're assuming I have a sensible drum friendly car! er, No. It's hopeless for getting drums in.
Daiwoo Matiz anyone? (I feel a new thread coming on.) LOL
Andy |
"You can practice 12 hours a day and become the fastest drummer in the world, but it's not a race." Kenny Clare |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21171 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 14:49:27
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I'm getting a Jobeky kit as I've always loved electronic gear but the thought of playing an e-kit live always filled me with dread.
I'm not saying you should get one but I definitely know where you're coming from, dibs. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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dibs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2012 : 15:01:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Prog
I'm getting a Jobeky kit as I've always loved electronic gear but the thought of playing an e-kit live always filled me with dread.
I'm not saying you should get one but I definitely know where you're coming from, dibs.
I'd get one if I thought for a minute it wouldn't be wasted on me. I'm just not very good with things that have too many variables. My attention span drowns in the presence of gadgets that don't have an "auto" function.
And for the record I don't drive a miniature car....just one that the designers never foresaw it's drivers having a need for sensible bootspace....a BMW 3 series, with arguably the most hopelessly dimensioned boot ever, I can't even fit my golf clubs in it fer crying out loud. |
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WendyB
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5651 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2012 : 17:32:28
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quote:
a BMW 3 series, with arguably the most hopelessly dimensioned boot ever, I can't even fit my golf clubs in it fer crying out loud.
Excellent! My Lexus is equally awkward to fit in anything which isn't flat-packed. If only I had time to play golf, I used to love it. |
I am No 5
www.wearefullyloaded.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ AND www.unforgivenmusic.co.uk
Honorary Forum Cupcake Baker. Nomnomnomnom. |
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blacklabel
Active Contributer
United Kingdom
65 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 11:36:21
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quote:
Originally posted by ian-40
Dibs, you dont take it apart. you put it in the back of the car in one piece (like i do with the TD8)
+1 |
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djohnson1974
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
406 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2012 : 22:55:37
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BMW 3 series? Lexus? Crikey is everyone married to premiership footballers here?  |
"Can you count to 4? Then you're in the band!" |
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MacDB7
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
254 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 20:06:58
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If you really want to get into playing along to a click, my advice is to start small and build-up.
Set the click @ 60bpm and just play hand to hand singles at first, listening extremely carefully to get them bang on the click.
While still @ 60bpm move on to doubles, then unison singles / unison doubles.
Gradually move the tempo up going through the same order...
If you do this for 10mins a day, I promise you that your playing and understanding of the click will drastically improve.
If you have the time, do this for a while and then build in moving throughout the kit / grooves.
This does sound extremely boring but it has helped me so much!
But then again... I am the sort of guy who used to spend bus journeys listening to a metronome... |
Jazz drummer
Mapex & Zildjian = the perfect combination!
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WendyB
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
5651 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 12:15:02
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quote:
Originally posted by djohnson1974
BMW 3 series? Lexus? Crikey is everyone married to premiership footballers here?
If only. My Lexus was 10 years old last week, 115K on the clock and still goes like a dream. |
I am No 5
www.wearefullyloaded.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ AND www.unforgivenmusic.co.uk
Honorary Forum Cupcake Baker. Nomnomnomnom. |
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