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DRuM
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2331 Posts |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12066 Posts |
 Posted - 24/04/2012 : 11:59:15
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They're emphatically NOT "copying Roland gear." In fact, Yamaha moves heaven and earth to avoid doing so because of Roland's propensity for litigation. Hence them not going to market with mesh heads (so the legends have it).
The new Yammie cellular foam pads are very nice indeed and in the view of many (including this correspondent) superior to not just standard gum rubber pads but trampoline-y mesh pads too. |
"It's just a rest, no need to complicate it with monkeys." - sunshinehead
SITMS #31/582 (B'ham) #31/798 (M'cr) | The Blue Road | Jive Honey |
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flurbs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4893 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 12:21:56
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| Agreed with Mr Moose - any Yamaha kit will give the corresponding-price-range Roland kit a run for its money (and they always did), if anything they're often a slightly better value package as they _have_ to offer more than the market-leader to be in contention. As for which (Yamaha) one, IMO all the upgrades through those three kits are justified so it simply depends how 'good' a kit she wants. For price, Yamaha in the UK seems to usually be available for 15-20% off RRP and a quick look on Google suggests that the Chappell pricing is pretty much on the going rate everywhere. For any considerable saving you'd need to keep eyes peeled on Ebay for an ex-display or 2nd hand kit. |
VideoFile Cymbal Shop at www.2ndchancecymbals.co.uk |
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DRuM
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2331 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 13:10:47
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| Great advice, thanks guys. So those cellular foam heads feel as good as roland's mesh heads? What about brain sounds and built in songs, are they as good as roland and which kit of those 3 best matches the TD9? |
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flurbs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4893 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 14:25:13
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- Great advice, thanks guys. So those cellular foam heads feel as good as roland's mesh heads?
No, they feel as good as Yamaha cellular foam heads. They don't feel like mesh - they aren't supposed to feel like mesh, and the differences are ENTIRELY subjective to the user. You can't get into a "which one is better" argument here as there isn't an answer, it's simply two differing choices from two differing manufacturers.
- What about brain sounds and built in songs, are they as good as roland
I'd need to give you the same answer as above! Forget this "as-good-as" stuff - if the Roland was "better" than the Yamaha then the Yamaha wouldn't even be on the radar. Same vice-versa. (Subjectively) my ears feel that Rolands (synthesised) sounds have always left quite a bit to be desired - if someone is good with the TD9 sounds I can't see them being disappointed with a current generation Yamaha.
- which kit of those 3 best matches the TD9?
Which TD9 variant are you looking at for comparison (there are at least 4...)? |
VideoFile Cymbal Shop at www.2ndchancecymbals.co.uk |
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DRuM
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2331 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 15:24:40
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Well, the TD9 at the school has one mesh head, 3 standard rubber pads and the TD9 brain.
As far as trying to find out how good the foam heads feel, the answer I'm looking for is surely simpler than you made it? The whole point of the roland mesh head was to give as close to the feel of a real drum. so simply put, does the foam head feel as close to a real drum, yay or nay? It's obvious anyone would draw comparison between yamaha and roland isn't it? |
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flurbs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4893 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 15:46:32
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Hi DRuM!
- Well, the TD9 at the school has one mesh head, 3 standard rubber pads and the TD9 brain.
Then the middle Yamaha 500 kit would be the closest pad spec if one were forced to draw a comparison.
- As far as trying to find out how good the foam heads feel, the answer I'm looking for is surely simpler than you made it?
I don't think so. What if the question were "does chicken taste as good as beef"? You're asking for a definitively objective answer to an entirely subjective question.
- The whole point of the roland mesh head was to give as close to the feel of a real drum.
No it wasn't. If you want the feel of a real drum head on an electronic pad, the only thing that feels like a real drum head IS a real drum head. Mesh heads were developed in the early 1900's as predominantly a quiet alternative to loud 'real' drumheads for practice-use in the US army band. Their adoption for use on electronic pads decades later was still driven first-and-foremost by volume concerns, although the feeling-quite-like-a-real-drumhead element was obviously still high on the list. Yamaha's cellular foam arose from exactly the same criteria, it's just a different way of implementing it.
- so simply put, does the foam head feel as close to a real drum, yay or nay?
Sorry, I have to come back to subjectivity here, _I_ can't give you an answer. Would it make you happy if I said that I've tried both extensively, and I wouldn't say that the Yamaha's are any less close? What about size? What does a real head feel like anyway? Does a 1-ply feel the same as a 2-ply? Does a 10" head feel the same as a 14"? Does a high-tuned head feel the same as a low-tuned head? If you examine all the variables, how is it even possible to compare a 10"-mesh head to a cellular foam surface (size irrelevant) to a real 14" snare drum?
I can't tell you the Yamaha pads feel as close to a real head as the Rolands because I genuinely don't believe that either of them do actually feel like a real head. What I can tell you is I've tried the Yamahas several times (albeit the larger sizes) and they feel great, and are IMO an equally worthy contender to anyone's Roland shopping list.
I AM trying to help you here, but ultimately the decision is yours/your pupils. If they're shopping for the Yamaha it's highly likely they'll be able to do an A/B comparison with a Roland mesh pad anyway - THAT is the subjective opinion that matters. |
VideoFile Cymbal Shop at www.2ndchancecymbals.co.uk |
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metallicpearl
Advanced Contributer
1841 Posts |
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DRuM
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2331 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 15:53:38
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| I appreciate your explanations flurbs. Ok, that's good enough info for me to pass on to her on thursday when I see her, and her to pass onto her dad. It seems then that both the yamaha or roland are a good choice from what's been said. I suppose then that they could really just choose on whatever is the cheapest if they wanted to, ie, TD9 v DTX530, as both are obviously very good. |
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DRuM
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2331 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 15:57:57
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quote:
Originally posted by metallicpearl
TD4s are currently going quite cheaply at Andertons.
http://www.andertons.co.uk/electronic-drum-kits/pid19989/cid642/roland-td4kx2-vdrums-electronic-drum-kit.asp
As for Roland vs Yamaha - it's entirely subjective. For me, I'd say that both make excellent kits.
Blimey, that's a good price for all mesh heads. I'm not too keen on the middle located brain of our school TD4, (which only has one mesh head btw), it doesn't have the range of sounds and songs of the TD9, but for her, it would be fine. I really don't know how much the dad wants to spend, but considering she gave me photocopies of kits up to £1.3K, I'm guessing money isn't really an issue.
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flurbs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4893 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 16:04:31
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quote:
Originally posted by DRuM
Blimey, that's a good price for all mesh heads. I'm not too keen on the middle located brain of our school TD4, (which only has one mesh head btw), it doesn't have the range of sounds and songs of the TD9, but for her, it would be fine. I really don't know how much the dad wants to spend, but considering she gave me photocopies of kits up to £1.3K, I'm guessing money isn't really an issue.
The TD4 and TD9 have just been discontinued, whereas there's been no such change in the Yamaha hierarchy recently. I'd seen that the US blowout on TD4/TD9 was pretty deep but hadn't realised the UK had followed suit (it doesn't usually! ). 800 sheets for that is a great price, nasty mesh heads nothwithstanding! This is great too: (but only one left)
http://www.andertons.co.uk/electronic-drum-kits/pid19990/cid642/roland-td9k2-vdrums-electronic-drum-kit.asp
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VideoFile Cymbal Shop at www.2ndchancecymbals.co.uk |
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DRuM
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
2331 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 16:11:19
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quote:
Originally posted by flurbs
The TD4 and TD9 have just been discontinued, whereas there's been no such change in the Yamaha hierarchy recently. I'd seen that the US blowout on TD4/TD9 was pretty deep but hadn't realised the UK had followed suit (it doesn't usually!). 800 sheets for that is a great price, nasty mesh heads nothwithstanding! This is great too: (but only one left)
http://www.andertons.co.uk/electronic-drum-kits/pid19990/cid642/roland-td9k2-vdrums-electronic-drum-kit.asp
Cheers, I'll pass those links on to her. That is very good at £999 considering they used to be around £1300. I'll ask her if she particularly would like to stick with the same TD9 or TD4 kit (well, it's the devil she knows at least) or try something fresher, ie, the yamahas. |
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Drumheduk
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
292 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 19:55:23
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| I'd recommend Roland every time, I find the idea of paying out over £1000 on a kit and having it sound identical to a kit costing £500 slightly odd to say the least, yes the pads are better but the brain, whilst good for a kit at £500 is massively lacking on a kit at any more money no matter how good the pads. |
Yamaha MCAN,DW Hardware, Sabian, Pro rac
www.deloreanband.co.uk
www.facebook.com/pages/The-Dragsters |
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Prog
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
21181 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 20:18:34
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| ^ I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. |
Funktion Junction, coming soon to a holiday park near you - http://www.funktionjunctionband.com |
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Drumbum
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
531 Posts |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12066 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2012 : 22:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Drumbum
Flurbs get over yourself.
Classy start.quote:
You post ridiculously long...
...carefully reasoned and based on extensive experience as a player and a retailer...quote:
answers and try to use far too many long words.
...responses that are thoughtful and articulate.quote:
Just my opinion.
Over which I'd take Simon's any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
"Just my opinion." |
"It's just a rest, no need to complicate it with monkeys." - sunshinehead
SITMS #31/582 (B'ham) #31/798 (M'cr) | The Blue Road | Jive Honey |
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Drumbum
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
531 Posts |
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moosetication
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
12066 Posts |
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flurbs
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
4893 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2012 : 00:15:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Drumbum
Flurbs get over yourself. You post ridiculously long answers and try to use far too many long words.
I'm sorry if I've used too many long words for you Adam, I believe in using the right tools for the job. If there's anything I've written that you don't understand fully then do let me know - I'll grab my thesaurus and dumb down a redux.
Simon |
VideoFile Cymbal Shop at www.2ndchancecymbals.co.uk |
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MustangMick
Advanced Contributer
Ireland
13099 Posts |
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Drumheduk
Excellent Contributer
United Kingdom
292 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2012 : 08:22:46
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| Point I was making is the 500 series brain is hard to work with and sounds like a cheap drum brain, which it is, which is fine on a cheap kit but not when they are trying to charge £1300 or near enough for the 560. The dtx500 is probably the best kit in it's price, the rest of the 500 series fall significantly short when compared to the equivalent Roland model. |
Yamaha MCAN,DW Hardware, Sabian, Pro rac
www.deloreanband.co.uk
www.facebook.com/pages/The-Dragsters |
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StormBlast
Advanced Contributer
United Kingdom
1506 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2012 : 18:41:33
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| Its all about the pads! Spending that much on a kit it's really worth trying out the pads. Both modules are considered great (although I hate Roland sounds, not tried any high end Yamaha ones). I have a td12 and the mesh pads are fine, but over time I'm starting to wish I had the yammy type! |
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allanjohn
Very Active Contributer
Australia
101 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2012 : 06:03:40
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| There is, of course, another options: 2box.... |
allanjohn
digitalDrummermag.com |
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dsmusic
New Contributer
1 Posts |
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